Suffer the Little Children
By Keith
In approximately AD 1212, two boys, one in France the other in Germany, both claimed to have visions that God wanted them to lead a crusade of children to recapture the holy land. The event became known as the children’s crusade. Though much is not known about the event, recent research indicates that at least 50,000 children died from terrible hardship.
There is a reason we do not send children into battle. Children need and deserve our protection.
One of the things that greatly disturbs me is the current effort to spread many of the manifestations of the prophetic among children. There are now conferences to teach children to enter altered states of consciousness such as trances, to prophesy and to engage in a number of other experiences that are, at best, marginally Biblical.
I have dealt with a number of families who had children in Dominion Christian School (for those of you who don’t know, this is the Christian school started by the supposedly non-dominionist Mike Bickle) during the time that the Toronto Blessing was brought to Kansas City. One family spoke of walking into the school and finding children doing “carpet time” in the middle of the hallway, in trance states and claiming to visit the second and third heaven. Another family had their son come home and inform them that his class spent most of the day barking. This same family had a daughter in the school who told them she went to the second heaven and spoke with her dead uncle.
Becky Fisher is taking children as young as 6 years old into her “Kids in Ministry” training program. She and others claim that God is raising up a “Samuel Generation” of children who will all have prophetic occurrences. I have seen other programs that take children as young as 3.
I realize that I don’t have a specific verse that says this is wrong. But look at the Biblical norms. Leaders were all adults. It is the elders of the church that are called to anoint the sick and pray for them. We have no record in the New Testament of any children prophesying. Philip’s daughters were almost certainly adults based on the Biblical chronology. Paul did not take children with him on His missionary journey. Jesus encouraged the children to come to Him but He didn’t appoint any to be apostles. Paul said that bishops were not to be novices. In other words they were to be men of maturity.
Children, by their nature, lack discernment. They lack abstract thinking skills and higher reasoning abilities. Even if one believes that these extra-Biblical activities are acceptable (which I obviously don’t) one surely must concede that there is a great potential for a counterfeit experience. Many of these children are being brought into realms of spiritual activity for which they lack the necessary tools. I fear that what we may be raising is a generation of kids who have been introduced to demonic manifestations.
And let’s consider Samuel for a minute. In the first place, Samuel was most likely a pre-teen at the time that the Lord first spoke to him, if one reads the chronology carefully. The Jewish historian Josephus indicates that Samuel was eleven when this occurred. While this would still be young, it is certainly far more advanced than 6 or 3. And Samuel is the exception. This teaching of a “Samuel Generation” is just one more attempt by someone in the prophetic movement to take a Biblical anomaly and attempt to turn it into an end-time norm.
I am concerned when I see adults leaving parental decisions to the “prophecies” of their children. I knew a family at the Crittenton Center for children with behavioral problems who allowed a child to stop taking medication after he received a “word” from God. Children are not equipped to make medical decisions and wouldn’t God speak to the parent in such a case?
I am all for training children in areas that are appropriate for them considering their stage of development. But children should not be introduced to activities that require maturity and discernment. It is dangerous. We might do well to remember that the Salem witch trials began from the spiritual experiences and accusations of girls who were nine and eleven. We might do well to remember the fiasco of the Children’s Crusade.
There are no shortcuts to maturity and no six-year-old possesses it. It requires time and experience.
There is a reason we do not put children on the front lines in the battlefield.
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Thank you Keith this is a timely, disturbing and thought provoking blog. Because children are so impressionable we need to be extremely careful as to the spiritual imput that we expose them to.
I remember from one of the 10 / 40 window prayer videos, I believe its the first one, where Doris Wagner has a section on the power of Children praying. She says on it something to the effect of ‘ I just believe that God might answer childrens prayers a bit faster’
Such an attitude is a failure to understand the atoning and redemptive power of the cross. To think that children are more holy and acceptable to God because they have lived less time and had had less opportunity to sin is an insult to Christ and his blood. What we are saying really is that the cross is defective in its ability to fully restore us in our relationship with the Holy God.
Therefore children because they have sinned less are more acceptable to God. He will listen to them and answer their prayers faster!
I had other friends who took their children down to Rick Joiner’s Church for some type of Conference . One of my friends was looking after the childrens ministry in our assembly at the time. She returned very impressed as to the extent that children were prophesying in Joiners outfit. They and their children were all given prophecies while there. In our own assembly during the crazy days of TACF it was the children that the Sunday School teachers suggested received the gold fillings in the teeth.
As a pastor at the time I cannot confirm any gold fillings in any ones teeth in our church but this was the testamony of our Sunday school teachers.
There was certainly an attitude that because children had less sin and doubts they were more able to receive the oracles from the Lord. The dangers from such ‘logic,’ Keith has already addressed.
The Children were more ‘open ‘ to the spiritual stuff because they had less discernment, knew less scripture and trusted their adult leaders more to protect them.
A common verse that was used to justify children taking the lead in prophetic utterances was the phrase …’A little child shall lead them.’
Lets look at the scripture.
Isa 11:6 The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them.
This verse speaks of a futuristic Messianic Kingdom and the child is leading the animals!!! ( that might explain all the barn yard noises from the Toronto Blessing, he he ) But hey, who cares about abusing scripture to justify our madness? Again Keith good topic.
In a Church parenting course that I attended a year ago, the teacher drove home the point that with children it is “monkey see, monkey do.” Even older children who act like they are independent from their parents tend to mimic their parents in many respects. With this in mind, the teacher stressed the importance of our walk with Christ. The way in which we walk with Christ will have significant impact on how our children act. That is why we must be wary about anything we are doing that will lead our little ones astray. Jesus Christ our Lord stated as much. I assume that the parents involved in the situations discussed in your post think that they are doing the opposite of leading their children astray, but when it comes to raising up a child in the way that he should go, they better be going on more than just a hunch or out of context scripture.
In almost every area of life, you can find those parents that are living vicariously through their children. There are those dads who couldn’t make the ball team looking upon their sons through rose colored glasses, pushing them into sports that they don’t understand, appreciate, or even enjoy yet. Some kids thrive in such circumstances and develop an understanding of the sports and come to enjoy them. Others simply comply, because that is what Dad does, or wants, or where he praises me. I have a feeling that some parents go with that natural tendency to view their kids as more than they are. Kids do hold the hope of tomorrow and our are legacies as parents. It is understandable for parents to want their children to grow up to be men and women of God and to be better and more righteous than them. But to a great extent, our children are but a reflection of us, looking for and very susceptible to outside influence, and immature.
[...] over at Sign of Jonah has a very intriguing article entitled Suffer The Little Children where he talks about why we shouldn’t send our children into spiritual [...]
Hi,
I had a recent look at the Gruen report and read about the KCF school. It sounds disastrous, girls wandering around wailing and getting “slain”.
I also saw the trailer clips to the film, Jesus Camp. Personally, I found the constant mood swings disturbing. I can’t help feeling that some of those kids will end up suffering from PTSD.
Hey Keith,
Haven’t blogged for awhile, I’ve just been kicking back and following the genesis of my original blog regarding Greg Boyd and OT. Ok, so I know Greg and might have just indirectly guided him to the blog…
Anyway, this was a really disturbing post. And to think that I get upset the few times a year when I have to kennel my prized hunting lab and she barks all day! How can these kids learn basic math and reading skills when they are sitting around barking all day and and having outer body experiences? (or OBE’s as the Hollywood types like to call them). Anyway, I’ll take the public school system over Bickle’s asylum any day of the week…
Blessings,
Rob
Rob!
How you been? I THOUGHT you would return. It NEVER ENTERED MY MIND that you would stay away for so long
-d
Drew,
I was predestined to return, I really had no choice in the matter even though I tried to resist…
Honestly, I was going to try and contact you regarding your bio - I actually took a moment to read it after my defense of Boyd.
You are an artist I see…and a musician (hence your ability to call me out on attaching Yellowcard to the wrong genre). My wife is also an artist (non- professional) and I fancy myself as a bit of an audiophile.
Back in the 70’s Larry Norman asked the question, “Why should the devil have all the good music?” Let’s toss in all the good art too, for discussion sake.
I would like to dialogue with you regarding the state of the Church and the arts, but I do not want to take up Keith’s blog space here on the barking children. By the way, just “what” do these people keep barking “at” anyway, and why aren’t they being properly medicated? - I just don’t get it!
Anyway Drew - let’s talk about God and the arts sometime - maybe you can do a post on “The Current State of the Arts in the Church, or Lack Thereof…”
By the way - I can probably talk Boyd into signing your new Bible!
-Rob
[...] Suffer the Little Children from the blog ‘The sign of Jonoah’ [...]
I understand what you are saying and felt that way for a very long time. That is, until I had a son gifted in the prophetic. This is NOT something that I taught, or even my chuch. My church believes in the gifts of the spirit but the teaching in the children’s classes is no different from most baptist churches I’ve been in (i.e…NO teaching on operating in the spirit.) So when I had a wisdom tooth that was bothering me badly and no insurance to see a dentist, he saw me in pain, laid his hand on my cheek and prayed tht God would either take the pain away or let the tooth fall out. Over the next month…my tooth FELL OUT! From the time he was 4 he talked about Jesus coming and sitting beside him at night and talking to him. Even today, he has visions. He is 9 now. Like I said, this is not stuff that he typically witnesses. I have had a couple visions but only a few. As far as whoever it was talking about mood shifts….from the adults that I’ve talked to who operate in the prophetic…moodiness, even depression, is common in the prophet…see Elijah in the Bible. Also you talk about that Samuel was the only one God talked to or was in leadership at a young age..what about Josiah? And do you really think Mary was in her 20’s? And yet God found her faithful, mature faith BEFORE she became pregnant with Jesus. I reiderate, I come from a very conservative, non”spirit-filled’ BAPTIST background. BUT, I’ve learned that we can’t put God in a box either. Do I think all children need to be pushed into this? NO!! I can’t imagine my daughter being pushed to experience these things, nor my nephew who is the same age as my son…but don’t discount those that God really is speaking to. Remember the Bible says that in the last days, your sons and daughters will prophecy, your young men will see visions.”
Just a thought
Wixkid,
I dont think its so much of a discount of who God speaks to as much as it it us watching them making blunder after blunder and trying to blame the blunder on our unfaithfulness or whatever else.
I think that TEACHING the children– or anyone– to be ‘prophetic’ is unbiblical. No one ever taught Joseph or Daniel to interpret dreams. They didnt go out and buy the newest ‘dream interpretation’ book. Sameuel was talked to at a very young age– he thought Eli was calling to him— nobody taught him what “God’s voice” sounded like. Yet there are teachings after teachings that go way off the deep end in the area of the ‘prophetic.’
Several here are cessationists, and several are not, so you are probably going to ge a mixed reaction. I, myself, am not a cessationist.
The best thing you can do to know whether or not anyone is speaking for God or that their miracles are indeed OF God is to test them against the Word and pray about them.
I do want to tell you though, that just because a child was not taught such things does not mean it is automatically Godly influence. Im not saying that your child is posessed or anything of the sort, you just still have to ALWAYS ALWAYS test everything to the Word of God because He will NEVER contradict Himself.
I find all the above comments interesting. I have sought out learned persons on this subject and I must agree with the post just prior to my own. to paraphrase,” Back It With The Bible.” My daughter has done some amazing drawings and I am certain they have come from the LORD. My return to the body of Christ occurred Sept 2006 her drawings began March 2007 and after conferring with the leaders of the Kids Ministries the subject of the Rapture was never taught. None-the-less, she says they are from God Jesus and the Holy Spirit. She has no idea what they mean and I’m not about to tell her. For now they are just pictures about Angels flying up to heaven. She Loves Jesus and that is enough. Prophesy is for the edification of the body of Christ. It is to encouurage the believer. I am encouraged that she can know without ever having learned the truth of the Rapture. As for our family, we find ourselves in the position of being messengers of truth. go to the sight http://www.veritaas.org and see the pictures and hear her explanation . As well you will see ELMO, yes that Elmo, in a freeze frame found in over 20 different videos many children have been watching. Had the LORD not given me a daughter I would have never seen the image I saw in the videos. Christ said to his accusers in Matthew 12:26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Most certainly God considers deception sin. The deception revealed in the Elmo videos can only be regarded as the work of the deceiver. To expose his own deception would be against Satans nature. Further, to encourage the church as my daughter clearly does in her pictures she says are from God, would also be clearly against Satans nature.
Again, Mark 3: 23 So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? 24If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come.
Children are Children They speak as a child. We are adults and have put away childish things. Perhaps we should not be so hasty.
Luke 18: 16 But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”
When a child believes, they do so with every fiber of their being.
As must we also. Children do not need to be taught the truth, they merely need to be shown the truth. We are all God’s children from babies to aged. At my daughter’s request I am showing you the truth and insodoing I hope you are encouraged at the truth of Psalms 8:2
From the lips of children and infants
you have ordained praise
because of your enemies,
to silence the foe and the avenger.
All praise and Glory be to God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
Amen and Amen
I just watched the documentary of Becky Fisher and her abuse of children. She said all born again Christians are Evangelical. I am born again and I do not believe in talking in tongues. A lot of the old testament were for the purpose of Jesus coming to earth. Children talking in tongues is ridiculous and just not necessary. Those kids should not have been crying and wailing when it comes to God and his precious son Jesus. They should be rejoicing and laughing. I am so glad they closed that camp down and I think Becky Fisher should be investigated into child abuse charges. She makes those kids think they can stand up against sin and a child is going to get hurt. The parents of those kids need to have some serious eye wakening regarding what is being fed to their kids. The basic truth is: Jesus is the Son Of God, and accepting him as your Savior is the salvation you need. Not having a total melt down and crying and wailing. I am surprised they weren’t tearing their clothes and pouring ash over their heads. Dangerous Woman!!